When it comes to revving up your retail revenue, one of the most common avenues spa owners explore is private label. But often private labels can leave much to be desired in terms of what you, and your customers, actually want out of a product, especially one with your brand name on it.  

Enter: custom formulations. 

If you’ve ever considered creating your own product line from the ground up, you’re going to love this episode of Spa Marketing Made Easy! 

Joining me on the mic is Lorraine Dallmeier; Lorraine is the award-winning CEO of Formula Botanica, an online organic cosmetic formulation and business school which has trained over 14,000 organic formulators and indie beauty entrepreneurs in 175+ countries. A Biologist and Chartered Environmentalist by training, Lorraine is on a mission to teach the world to make formulation as commonplace as cooking. 

Awarded Digital Achiever of the Year by Google and Cosmetic Executive Women (CEW) in 2018 and voted most influential person in the global natural beauty sector for 2020, Lorraine is a force to be reckoned with in the world of formulation, something she started as a side hustle while on maternity leave that has led to a $6 million global eLearning empire with a team of 40. 

Whether you’re just inkling with the idea of creating your own custom formulations, or you need an inspiring story of growing your empire, you’re going to love our discussion in this episode!

References Mentioned in Episode #291: Formulating Your Own Products with Lorraine Dallmeier, CEO of Formula Botanica

• Learn more about Formula Botanica by visiting their website and enroll in their free course, “Learn How to Become an Organic Skincare Formulator” by clicking here
• Connect with Formula Botanica on Instagram and Facebook
• Connect with Lorraine Dallmeier on Instagram and Facebook 
• Check out the brands Lorraine mentioned in this interview, NOPALERA and Naughty Alchemist  
• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

Episode Transcript

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If you have the dream of growing your spa or aesthetic business beyond its first six figures, building a team is a non-negotiable. 

And a non-negotiable element to a top-performing team is one that communicates clearly, kindly, and efficiently. 

Furthermore, you need to build a business that doesn’t rely on you, the Spa CEO, as the foundation…

But what’s the best way to ensure that the team you are building is going to help you build for the long-haul? 

In this episode of Spa Marketing Made Easy, I’m talking about why understanding your MBTI personality type and those of your staff and team make all the difference in your hiring process and thus, creating a company with a strong infrastructure for growth. 

In this episode, you’ll learn: 

• What the MBTI Personality entails and what each letter determines about someone’s personality 
• Why MBTI is my go-to personality assessment tool for hiring new team members and understanding my team member’s communication style
• How to assess your team’s individual personality assessments to fit your business’ team needs
• How you can utilize MBTI has a filtering tool during the hiring process 

References Mentioned in Episode #287: Understanding MBTI to Build Your Top Performing Team

• Take the MBTI Personality test on 16Personalities 
• Check out other personality assessments including StrengthsFinder, Kolbe Type Indicator and Enneagram 
• Learn more about Dr. John Gottman and Carl Jung’s work  

• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

Episode Transcript

We always think it’ll never happen to us, but the reality is, it could happen to anyone and I’ve seen it for myself. 

I’m talking about your spa business getting hacked. 

It’s one of those things we just don’t want to imagine or simply believe that it only happens to “big, household name” companies, but the truth is, data breaches and security hacks can happen to any business of any size. 

And no matter what the size of your business, the results can be devastating. 

That’s why in this week’s episode of Spa Marketing Made Easy, I’m sitting down with my husband, Kyle, an MIT engineer and my resident tech wizard, to talk about all things cyber-security and good computer hygiene so that you can keep your business safe and secure in our digital world. 

Now I know this isn’t a “sexy” business topic like revenue growth, profit potential, social media, or marketing, but without securing the house you’re building, you’re putting your business at a huge risk of losing the gains you’re working so hard to make. 

The truth is, topics like this are topics that Spa CEOs need to concern themselves with, and the good news is that if you simply become aware of these things and take the proper steps to either set yourself up for cyber-safety from the get-go, or carve out some time to create your cyber-secure systems, you can move forward knowing you’re operating with a safe and secure foundation.

In this episode, we discuss: 

•  My personal experience working with a spa that got hacked and how it impacted their business
• The steps you need to take online to ensure your passwords are truly strong and secure 
• Considerations around backing up your business’ data and crafting credentials that further secure your business’ information
• Our go-to password protection tool that we use to help onboard and offboard team members while ensuring our security information stays safe 

References Mentioned in Episode #285: Keeping Your Business and Tech Secure with Daniela and Kyle

•  Sign up for LastPass, which is what Team Addo uses to manage passwords and keep them secure  
• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 
 

Episode Transcript

It’s a business topic that often makes spa owners want to run for the hills or bury their heads in the sand, but I promise if you stick with me for this episode, I’ll make it worth your while, and a lot less scary…

That’s right, I’m talking about metrics aka KPIs aka your numbers. 

You may think it’s the most unsexy thing to think about in business, but it’s so critical to understanding where you’re currently at in the health of your spa business, and tracking your progress to grow to the level you ultimately desire. 

Stick with me through this short episode where I’m covering the most critical KPIs you need to be tracking inside your spa, and you’ll see that knowing your numbers is actually quite desirable, and not nearly as intimidating as you think. 

You in?

Let’s go! 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• What KPIs are and what they help you achieve in your business
• The 4 KPIs that are crucial for every spa owner to be tracking
• How the benchmarks for these numbers can differ depending on your spa’s business model and what to look for to see if you’re leaving money and earning potential on the table 
• A simple breakdown of the “Revenue Per Hour Per Room” metric on a spa earning a million dollars in revenue to showcase how this is a 100 percent possible goal 

References Mentioned in Episode #284: The Spa KPIs and Metrics You Need to Know to Grow

• Listen to Episode 225: Becoming a Profitable Shareholder of Your Business with Mike Michalowicz, the author of Profit First 
• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

 Episode Transcript

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You know how the saying goes, “never say never.” 

Well, that may apply 99% of the time, but this is the 1% time where you want to throw that adage out the window because whether you’re working to hit that first 6-figure year in your spa, or you’re climbing the mountain to a million, there is never a better time to get your financial plans in order than right now.

Even if you’re listening to this episode a week, 2 months, or 2 years after its original release, everything that’s shared is still timely, timeless, and applicable.

And as my guest shares, even if you think you’re too late in the game when it comes to financial planning, there’s never an age too old to start (there’s that ‘never’ word again). 

Here to discuss the timeless topic of financial planning with me in this episode of Spa Marketing Made Easy is Brent Weiss, the co-founder and Chief Evangelist of Facet Wealth.

{ If you’re wondering what in the world a “Chief Evangelist” is, I had the same question! }

In a nutshell, Brent’s role is to be the “keeper, speaker, and champion” of the Facet Wealth cause, which is to give everyone clarity and confidence by building a financial plan based on personalized advice for all the financial decisions that impact your life. 

Now, all you loyal listeners know I’m a nerd for money conversations, but Brent truly makes the topic of financial planning a feel-good experience, and as a Facet Wealth client myself, I can truly attest to the fantastic experience and advising they provide.

I know this isn’t the “fun” stuff in business, but I can promise that having a financial plan feels a whole lot better than flying by the seat of your pants. 

So pull up an earbud, I can’t wait for you to tune in.  

In this episode, we discuss: 

•  Why having a financial plan and financial advisor is so important, especially as a business owner, and why it’s critical that you align your financial plan with your life and business goals
• How traditional financial planning services work, and how Facet Wealth is working to do things differently
• Brent’s top insights on what to look for when finding the right-fit financial advisor for you and what key indicators to look out for when interviewing your potential advisor
• Why it’s never too late to craft a financial plan and why you need a “To Be” list versus a “To Do” list when it comes to your financial planning vision

References Mentioned in Episode #277: Feel-Good Financial Planning with Brent Weiss of Facet Wealth

•  Learn more about Facet Wealth on their website 
• Connect with Facet Wealth on Instagram, TikTok and LinkedIn
• Connect with Brent via his email at brent(at)facetwealth.com or on Instagram at @thebrentweiss
• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

Join the Aesthetic Marketing Seminar, the premiere spa marketing event of the year, on May 16 + 17, 2022 to learn the most relevant strategies and systems that today’s spa owners need to shift from biz chaos to Spa CEO. 

[ Learn More + Get Your Ticket to the AMS  ] 

Episode Transcript

We all know that revenue is critical to running a successful, profitable, and sustainable business, but what’s often overlooked is that some revenue has a higher value to your business’ bottom line than others. 

Yes, a dollar is still a dollar and that won’t change, but what *can* shift is the flow of cash in your business based on the various revenue streams you’ve built.

And when it comes to the bottom line (and how your revenue makes its way there), the key to success for your spa lies in diversification. 

That’s why in this episode of Spa Marketing Made Easy, I’m covering the three key types of revenue you’ll want to have working within your spa and how they work with and flow together to give your business the strongest financial ground to stand (and grow) on.

In this episode, you’ll learn: 

• Why having diversified revenue is important for your business’ financial cash flow 
• The ultimate goal of having multiple revenue streams and what it can help you achieve in your business growth journey 
• A breakdown of the three types of revenue streams every spa needs
• How to weave together and leverage all three to give your business the best financial ground to stand on

References Mentioned in Episode #272: 3 Types of Revenue Every Spa Needs 

•  Learn more about Growth Factor Framework
• Learn more and enter for a $10,000 Grants for Female Entrepreneurs in the Beauty Industry
• To watch more trainings like this and to keep the conversation going, as well as connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community.

Episode Transcript

Whether you’re making good amounts of it or you’re not taking home as much as you’d like, there’s one thing that almost every entrepreneur can identify with, and it’s that there’s always something you could be doing to improve your money situation. 

From stabilizing your cash flow to getting more organized, my guest on this episode of Spa Marketing Made Easy, Nicole Cooley, is wholeheartedly focused on helping others not feel overwhelmed with handling and owning their current finances as well as their financial future. 

With a holistic approach to money that combines your numbers, values, beliefs, and dreams, Nicole helps her clients build systems that bring you confidence so you can feel empowered with your money and move on to achieving your biggest goals.

After personally receiving coaching and systems support from Nicole and being able to double my take-home pay, I knew I needed to have her on the podcast to share how her specific approach to money systems is set up to help you feel good about your money not only in the day-to-day, but also in setting you up for success to make the right choices (for you and your specific) business so that the picture of your financial future is clear and bright as well. 

Tune in as we discuss: 

•  How having a money and budgeting system in your business allows you to make better business decisions
• Nicole’s definition of cash flow and why this is often overlooked in many common, well known financial systems 
• The three key areas of a sound financial system that will allow you to see the full picture of financial health for your business 
• Why it’s critical to not just know where your money has gone, but also where you’re planning for it to go in the future 

Resources Mentioned in Episode #269: Making Your Money Work for You with Nicole Cooley 

• Connect with Nicole via her website, https://nicole-cooley.com/ 
• Connect with Nicole via her Instagram, @theholisticdollar
• Learn more about the tool Nicole uses with her clients, You Need a Budget (YNAB)
• Tune into Episode #225: Becoming a Profitable Shareholder of Your Business with Mike Michalowicz
• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

Episode Transcript

Finances are the ultimate two-sided coin of business — on one side, it’s the lifeblood that can lead to quite a bit of entrepreneurial pressure. 

And on the other side, having a financially successful business is one of the keys to relieving all the pressure and unlocking true freedom, both in time and ability to do what we want not just with our business trajectory, but our lives. 

And it’s this aspect of business finances that my guest, Kristi Thiel, and I are discussing in this episode of Spa Marketing Made Easy. 

With more than 15 years and a unique blend of accounting and financial advisory experience under her belt, Kristi’s role as an Outsourced CFO is to help companies implement a strategy that ensures growth and profitability on track to achieving the long-term financial success they envision in both business and life. 

Tune in as we talk about Kristi’s approach to finances and how a CFO can function as a collaborative partner in your business to ensure that all your financial bases are covered. 

In this episode, we discuss: 

•  How a CFO differs from a bookkeeper and CPA, and what they uniquely can do for a business in regards to finances 
• What CFOs do and how they work to help you achieve your goals 
• How to know when it’s the right time to consider bringing on a CFO and what pieces you need to have in place to onboard one effectively 
• Kristi’s unique approach and on boarding process that helps her client get a grasp of how their financials look today where they’ll move in the future to support both personal and professional goals

References Mentioned in Episode #235: How a CFO Helps You Meet Your Big Vision Goals with Kristi Thiel

• Learn more about Kristi and her work as an Outsourced CFO via her website ktcpallc.com
• Connect with Kristi on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn 
• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

As a thank you for being a loyal listener to the Spa Marketing Made Easy podcast and for helping us to reach more aestheticians working on growing their businesses and creating a life they love, we have created a free resource portal just for you! 

It’s totally free to join, and for every 25 reviews we get on iTunes, we’ll add a new training video, PDF, tracker, or other high-value resource to help you grow your aesthetic business!

If you have yet to leave a review, click here to leave one on iTunes, and click here to access the free resources already unlocked! 

Episode Transcript

00:00

You’re listening to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast where we share simple, proven strategies just for spa industry professionals to help you get more clients in the door so that you can create a life you love. I’m your host, Daniela Woerner licensed aesthetician and spa marketing strategist.

00:22

Hello My dears, Daniela here and welcome to another episode of the Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast. Now when I ask our students to create an org chart for the vision of their company in the next year, I’m always surprised at how many leave off the finance department. Now, I know that you may not have a finance team on site at your spa. But they are an incredibly important piece of your business structure, a division of your company that can really make or break you. That’s why I was really excited to talk to Kristi Thiel about the role of your financial team. What should they be doing? What should you be talking to them about?

01:03

So we got into the difference between a bookkeeper a CPA and a CFO. So a CPA is a certified public accountant. A CFO is a chief financial officer. So really interesting to look at what each of these roles do and how they can help and support your business. Now, remember that in creating your business, you need to begin with the end in mind. What is it that you’re wanting to create for yourself? So if you’re wanting to create a multi six, seven, or even an eight figure company, you’ve got to start acting like a multi six, seven or eight figure business owner today. And how do they act? Well, I can tell you for sure that they have a financial team that they are consulting with that they’re being guided by, that’s helping them make the right decisions as they grow into the next level. 

01:59

Now, I’m going to go ahead and do a quick read of Kristi’s bio and then we can jump right in to the good stuff. With more than 15 years and a unique blend of accounting and financial advisory experience. Kristi’s role as an outsourced CFO is to create and help companies implement a strategy that ensures growth and profitability on track to achieving the long term financial success they envision. She becomes a collaborative partner in your business to ensure that your financial bases are covered. So go ahead and listen and take some notes and start to think about what your financial team looks like in your company. Alright, let’s go ahead and play that interview. 

02:42

All right, Kristi, welcome to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast, I am so excited to have you on to have this conversation we met online. I always think that that’s funny, we met on LinkedIn reached out you sent a really, really nice post a lot of times like on LinkedIn, they have those spammy messages and yours was really something about it just caught my attention. And and we had a great conversation about what is a topic that I think is so important in spa, and that’s for those spa owners that are at that like 200 – 300k and revenue. And they’re wanting to get to a million. There’s this missing piece that nobody really talks about. And that is the relationship that you have with your CPA, your CFO, your your finance team in general. And that’s what you do. That’s what you are, that is your world. And so I felt like bringing you on to really shine some light on that topic was going to be just so so valuable. 

03:53

Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

03:55

Yeah. So you know, we did your bio in the intro, but can you just give like the in a nutshell version of how you got to where what you’re doing today?

04:07

Yeah, so I have over 15 years of experience, not just an accounting, but also, I’m a former financial statement, auditor, I’ve done tax, I’ve done consulting, and I’ve also been on the private side. And I took what I really liked about all of those things, and decided that I wanted to serve companies in a greater way. And in order to do that I needed to provide services in a different way. We frequently see companies that interact with their CPA once a year or on a quarterly basis when they feel that they need something but CPAs have the power by having the exposure to all of those numbers and that information and exposure to a greater number of companies to see what works well. And so in this role, I have The ability to jump in and help was so much more than just producing financial statements or filing tax returns. So really, the purpose of it is to help provide some clarity, and align financial goals with the strategic plan and the vision of the company, and really help find a path forward so that business owners can get where they want to go.

05:25

So for listeners who are not clear on what these different roles in the financial piece are, can you explain the difference between a bookkeeper, a CPA and a CFO?

05:41

Okay, so a bookkeeper is making sure that the books and records are in order, everything that has happened in the past is recorded, it’s reported, and you have that information to use a CPA can help with anything from audits to tax preparation. CPAs also do consulting. But a CFO really is responsible for the financial management and the strategy of the company. So they are more involved in the company and the operations, financing and investing decisions going forward.

06:19

Yeah, and this is something that that we learned, you know, as we were growing as a company, it’s like, so often as the business owner, like the first goal is just getting to 100,000. Right? It’s like everyone wants to get there. And then you get into those multi six figures. And you’re like, Okay, yes. And then the next hurdle is a million. But there’s so many, like, Are you an LLC? Are you filing as an S corp? Right, like structure changes that can that’s a question you would talk with a CFO or CPA about, right? 

06:53

Yes. 

06:54

How? What is your strategy bringing on employees? What is your strategy and investing? What is your strategy, like? All of these types of things that are kind of like, you know, you’re no longer running a hobby business like this is really being developed into a company that you are creating, rather than just creating a job for yourself? And how do you structure that? And I feel like so often in the world of business, we talk about the marketing and the social and all the like, sexy parts of it, right? But the, the part that’s really going to save you thousands of dollars or push you over that hurdle is understanding and having a clear strategy for taxes for paying yourself or under for understanding long term growth of the company, because no one wants to get hit with a huge tax bill without being prepared for it, right? 

07:53

Yes, definitely. So in a spa, you have a multitude of things that you’re doing as a business owner or managing operations. And there’s so there’s a combination of so many different things that can bring you to the right place. But getting all of those pieces in order. There are so many details involved in that. And so what a CFO can do is really take a step back from those tiny details, and get it to the high level and help guide you in that direction.

08:27

I know for us over the pandemic, and our like whole finance team. They were the ones that were like, okay, here’s what the ideal is, here’s what the PPP is, here’s what you know, they were giving us all the information and digesting, like, okay, the Cares Act came out. And this is what this means, right? Like, if you don’t have a CPA or a CFO that’s helping guide you through those pieces. That can be so challenging, because you’re just trying to like, how am I going to keep my business afloat with all of this that’s going on, right? So it allows you to, okay, I don’t have to figure that piece out. My finance team can tell me how you qualify for this, or here’s your options. Here’s what we suggest or don’t suggest, here’s the pros and cons, right? Like looking at all of those pieces, which I think especially in the past year and a half, right, it’s just been so incredibly important, important to understand what all of that is.

09:35

Yes, and CPAs, and especially CFOs. They have exposure and they have the resources at their fingertips, to know what’s going on and what’s available to be used and how to get there. There’s so much in the laws, regulations and the rules for obtaining different sources for funding and so to look into that you really need someone who understands the lingo and Instead of trying to read the whole thing yourself and get to that point.

10:05

So, at what point in business, does it make financial sense to bring someone on that is a CFO?

10:15

So I think you’ve reached the point where you know, what you want your company to look like, and you’ve started operating. And you’ve already got your accounting is in order, and you’re able to analyze your financial performance. But you really need that strategic step forward, on the financial side.

10:37

So you know, what you want your business to look like, like, you have your 5, 10, 20, you have your exit strategy, right? You know, like, when the business is fully realized? What is it going to look like? Am I going to sell? Am I going to create a, a company where I just truly become an owner and not an operator. You know, all of these pieces we need to think about? And so often I see spa owners, especially if they’re solo, there is no, they’re just going day to day, right? They’re not thinking about what is the long term growth of the company. But yeah, to hire a CFO, and give them the direction of the goals that you want them to achieve? You’ve got to know like, what you’re going for? When do you want to retire? When do you want to? You know, are you going to hire a team? Are you going to sell, right? Because I imagine your financial statements should be done with all of that in mind.

11:40

Yes, definitely. And it also depends on do you have a plan for succession? Do you have a plan to sell. But also, I think a lot of owners, they have that dream and vision in mind before they start. And then they get into operations. And some of that gets forgotten because they get in the routine. And it’s tough to break that mold or start hiring staff when you’re not quite sure how to go about doing it. So there’s definitely some guidance that’s needed there. But it’s really that next step, once you’ve reached multiple, six figures, and you’re wanting to scale and grow, and you have different services in mind that you’ve considered offering that you think would complement everything else you do. So well. And so you need that guidance financially on how to get there.

12:36

Does the CFO, you know, one of the questions that has been asked regularly with our Growth Factor clients now who are doing kind of what is my exit strategy? What does that look like? And, and so much of it, especially as a small business owner, you know, a lot of these businesses are single member LLCs, or, you know, LLC filing as an S Corp. And your personal finances are very much involved in that. So does the CFO of your company, you know, if you hire a CFO, are they looking at your entire financial health and well being including? You know, like the finances of your spouse, when you are wanting to retire? If you have children? If you’re saving for college? Is that a CFO? Or is that financial advisor? Like how do you piece all of those things together to set the goals for your company based on what you’re wanting to create for yourself?

13:41

Right, so a CFO in a traditional sense, working directly for a company, they’re focused on that company, some outsource CFOs, myself, in particular, we have a big discussion upfront about personal goals, and where they are and where they want to be personally, because it all flows into the business. And what you decide to do financially affects your personal side as well. And so there’s an element of Yes, it’s easy to make a decision based on immediate bottom line impact. But you also have to consider what that means for your life and does it fit with everything that you want. So I definitely include that as part of the process.

14:28

So walk me through what your onboarding process is like when you bring on a small business.

14:36

Yes, so I like to have an initial consultation. I like to make sure that we’re a good fit. You need someone that you can work with and trust to help you in that strategic direction. And you need to be fully aligned on where things are going to go and how you’re going to commit to the process to make things happen and reach those goals. Maybe adjust as needed as time goes by the last year and a half has taught us how to adapt to change quickly. So, you know, it’s, for me, it’s about finding a good fit to, and you want someone who’s going to meet all of the needs that you have in mind for this type of service. And so what I do is first consultation, make sure we’re a good fit. And I also make sure that, you know, the spa owner is fully committed to the process, open to making changes to make things happen, open to potential investments in technology. And just being part of that process, and committing to meeting every month, so that we can work through things and know where things are going and where we stand and what we’ve done well, and what needs to improve. And then we read me on a regular basis. But there’s also ongoing support in between, they can pick up the phone or send me an email. So we can talk through things. Some clients prefer like a Google Sheet with objectives and tasks so that we can update each other regularly, without having to interrupt the day to day. So what I love about what I do is that is truly different for every client, I like to really customize based on the needs of my client. So usually, in that initial consultation, I can identify three to four key areas that we can really work on that would help reach those financial goals. So that’s kind of what drives how we set up what we’re doing.

16:46

That’s great. And this is, as I’m listening to you talk, I’m just thinking like, this is the definition of working on your business, you know, when everyone talks about like working on your business, rather than in it, this is like one of the key pieces, you’ve got marketing, PR fulfillment, and finance as really like the core areas of any company. And finance is something that, you know, it’s not uncommon for me to be talking with an aesthetician and then to have no idea what they’re even what their revenue is in October. And it’s like they’re pulling their stuff together for taxes. And it’s just one of those things that, you know, numbers can be scary for a lot of people. But it is it gives you so much power and so much peace of mind to really understand and own that part of your business. And shift the shift the the story or block or whatever it is around money that I’m not good with money, or I don’t like numbers or whatever it is like when you pay attention to it and learn and grow. It shifts that story. And that shifts so many other things in just your day to day operations of how you’re running and operating your business.

18:08

Yes, definitely. And, you know, part of the process is reverse engineering what you’re doing. So with business owners, I often get them to shift their thinking on expenses. What’s the benefit of that? Are you making a return on that? And so, you know, you talk about wanting to have a certain amount of profit, well, how do we get there, we have an idea where our sales are going to go based on history and trends, and you know, seasonality during the year. And so you have that, and you know how much you want your profit to be. And so then expenses, it really becomes going through those big expenses. And is this benefiting me? Or is it something I can live without?

18:56

Right isn’t an investment that you’re actually getting an ROI on? or… 

19:01

Yes.

19:02

Yeah, that’s huge. That’s for sure. 

19:05

Yeah. 

19:06

Okay. So any, what advice in wrapping up? What would you What advice would you give to an aesthetician who’s kind of on the fence and saying, Is this an expense to hire a CFO? Right? Is that an expense? Am I in that space? What benefit Am I going to get? Like? What would you say to that person?

19:29

Yes. So the intent of my process is to get a significant return and help give you that clarity so that you know where to go forward. And so, you know, if if we’re not getting a return, there’s a problem that needs to be fixed right away. And usually, if there’s a little hiccup in the process, it’s because there hasn’t been the full commitment to tracking and meeting those goals. Anytime you skip a monthly meeting or you know you’re not tracking your goals, you’re kind of letting things slide a little bit. So the point is when we have set meetings every month, there’s accountability there. When there’s tracking of goals, there’s accountability, to make sure that things are happening.

20:20

Love that. Perfect. So where can people find you follow you stay in touch with you? 

20:25

Yes. So I have my own website. I’m listed as Katie CPA LLC. And I’m also on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.

20:37

Perfect. Well, we will include all of those links. I encourage you spa owners to check Kristi out, do some research, you know, look into your finances, ask yourself, Am I giving my finances the attention that they need that they deserve? to really take me to the next level, because that is such an important piece in your company. So if you want to keep this conversation going, please head on over to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Facebook group we’re going to we talked about all kinds of good stuff in there, around structure, around finance, around sales, all of these cases, head on over in the group tag us if you have any questions and we’ll catch you on the next episode. 

21:25

As always, if you want to keep the conversation going, I want you to head on over to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Facebook group. The number one free resource out there for aestheticians focused on business building. We’ve got weekly marketing tips, a monthly goal setting and planning session, monthly aesthetician business book club, plus a community of thousands of aestheticians committed to business building in the spa industry. I’ll see you there.

There are a lot of fun topics to discuss in business – sales and profits, marketing and product development…but what’s not so fun? 

The legal stuff, specifically, trademarking and even more specifically, getting slapped with a cease and desist for infringing on a trademark. 

Thankfully, my guest on today’s episode actually makes the topic of trademarking approachable, understandable and dare I say, fun (especially when you learn what you need to cover your brand’s behind legally)!

Joining me on this episode is Keren de Zwart, who after working for 10 years in the corporate arena, left to fill the legal gap for entrepreneurs and small businesses by replacing the outdated billable hour model with flat-fee pricing. 

With a decade of experience in corporate transactions, Keren has worked with every type of business: from side hustlers and businesses raising millions of dollars to taking companies public. 

And today, she helps entrepreneurs get #legallylegit through her law firm, Not Your Father’s Lawyer (that name alone should tell you that she makes the topic of trademarks anything but boring!)

If you’ve been putting the topic of trademarking on the back burner for your business because you just don’t want to deal with the legalese, or you didn’t know trademarking is kind of a big deal in business, even if you’re small, this episode is a must-listen. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• What a trademark is and how they function in the world of business and commerce 
• Understanding the different classes of trademarks and answering the questions: when should we get one? And why does it matter?
• The various nuances of trademarks and how they differ on the federal and state level
• Keren’s top tips for getting a trademark, what to expect, and how to navigate the process whether you’ve infringed on a trademark or other brands are infringing on yours

References Mentioned in Episode #233: Trademarking 101 with Keren de Zwart

• Connect with Keren and learn more about her services and expertise at www.notyourfatherslawyer.com
• Connect with Keren on Instagram and Facebook at @notyourfatherslawyer
• Explore the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) website here 
• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

As a thank you for being a loyal listener to the Spa Marketing Made Easy podcast and for helping us to reach more aestheticians working on growing their businesses and creating a life they love, we have created a free resource portal just for you! 

It’s totally free to join, and for every 25 reviews we get on iTunes, we’ll add a new training video, PDF, tracker, or other high-value resource to help you grow your aesthetic business!

If you have yet to leave a review, click here to leave one on iTunes, and click here to access the free resources already unlocked! 

Episode Transcript

Have you heard about the free Spa Business Bootcamp happening May 31st to June 4th in the Spa Marketing Made Easy Facebook group?

00:08

Each day, we’re going to take a deep dive into the four phases of the Growth Factor Framework, your sales process, your social media, your systems and your structure before wrapping up on the final day with how to scale this bootcamp is a must for spa owners who are truly looking to build a company and a brand not just create a job for themselves. Click the link in the show notes to get registered and I can’t wait to see you in the group. 

00:35

You’re listening to the Spa Marketing Made Easy podcast where we share simple proven strategies just respond to street professionals to help you get more clients in the door so that you can create a life you love. I’m your host, Daniela Woerner, licenced aesthetician and spa marketing strategist. 

00:58

Hello, my dears, Daniela here and welcome to another episode of the Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast. Now I’m really excited for today’s guest because we’re going to be talking about one of the most overlooked parts of business, and that is protecting your intellectual property through trademarking. 

01:16

Now, imagine starting your business working so hard to get clients in the door, finally hitting that six figure milestone, and then bam, one day you get a letter in the mail that says you’re infringing on someone’s trademark. And you’ve got to stop using the name of your business immediately. Could you imagine the cost associated with new signage, new website, new marketing materials, all of the things and worse yet, what have you invested thousands in packaging for your private label line, only to find out that legally, you cannot use it anymore. This is the risk that you’re taking when you’re not trademarking your business. 

01:57

Now, I don’t want to totally freak you out, because many business owners don’t start this process until they have a proven concept. But in my opinion, this is one of the first things you do once you start generating consistent revenue in your company. Not when you know not in that space, where you’re like what I’m finally paying myself what I desire, but actually creating consistent revenue. And if you are doing a private label line, you know, I would at least do the search on the name of your brand before you invest in any labels or packaging, because that is the last thing that you want to deal with. Now, when I first started Addo Aesthetics, we went through the trademarking process, and it took close to three years to go through the entire thing, the officially registered have my trademark all of that. 

02:45

But as our business grew, we saw the need to trademark our programs and even our podcast. And Keren and attorney who was referred to me from a close friend, is who we brought in to help with the trademarking of our podcast and programs. And I’m really excited to have her as a guest today to shine some light on this topic. So let me go ahead and read you her bio, and then we’ll jump right into that episode. 

03:07

So after working for 10 years in the corporate arena, Keren had a desire to fill the legal gap for entrepreneurs and small businesses by replacing the outdated billable hour model with flat fee pricing. With a decade of experience in corporate transactions, Keren has worked in every type of business, from side hustlers to raising millions of dollars and taking companies public. Today, she helps entrepreneurs get legally legit through her law firm, not your father’s lawyer. She lives in Orange County, California with her husband and two children. So Keren is super easy to talk to. I loved working with her on this process. And I’m super excited to share this interview with you. So without further ado, let’s go ahead and play that interview. 

03:53

All right, Karen. Welcome to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast. I’m so excited to have you on. I think that trademarking our topic of the topic of the moment is something that’s really not talked about enough. It’s kind of one of those like boring topics, but it’s not boring at all. If you get a cease and desist letter, or you get something that’s like, like the risk benefit of going through trademarking and is just so huge. And so many spa owners don’t even know what it is or don’t even know what they should be trademarking or the different classes or what the process is. And so I really, I’m so excited to have you on the show and just shine some light, shine some clarity on to this topic.

04:43

Well, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here. And I agree, people think of trademark is kind of boring or unimportant, but it’s a really important part of running a business. 

04:55

So let’s just start off by defining what a trademark is the different classes like, because I know for me in my business, I trademarked my business as one of the first things that I did. But it was a new, it was kind of like a learning curve for me as we added different programs in the podcast, right like trademarking the podcast. So for a spa, you want to trademark your brick and mortar, but then you also if you’re developing your own private label line, or you know, those types of things. So how do we understand number one, what a trademark is? And number two, what the heck is supposed to be trademarked?

05:36

That’s a great question. And you kind of hit the nail on the head there, which is, I mean, ensure a trademark is a set of intellectual property rights for a it’s, you know, a product or service. And it’s basically to identify the origin of goods or services. So the idea is, you know, how can a consumer or the public know who owns this product or service and obviously, you can think of it in the most obvious ways, like, you know, I can’t start a company called like, Nike sneakers, because I can confuse a consumer about, you know, is this the Nike? Or is this not the Nike? and, and so the idea is to give an owner of goods and services the right to protect their brand, you can think of a trademark, there’s a couple of ways that you can trademark obviously, a word mark is just the basic word. So the word Nike, for example, is trademarked as just the basic words, no, no specific font or colors or anything, but you also can trademark designs, or logos, any sort of design, icons that people might use. 

06:44

So there’s actually two different kinds of trademarks. And you can do either or both. So sometimes, when people start out at that’s a big question, because obviously, it’s two different, you know, costs, it’s two different, you know, the research to make sure that the logo isn’t infringing is different than the research to make sure that the word mark isn’t infringing. And what I like to tell people, when they’re just starting out is, a lot of it depends on how you are marketing your business. So some people or I would say a lot of people have the actual words of their trademark brand in the logo. So if Spa Marketing Made Easy is in, you know, stylized form, obviously, you have that logo, and you can go out and protect that. But at the beginning, when you’re just starting out, and you only maybe have resources to go one way or the other, if your logo has the words in it, then you know, if it’s just a stylized version of the words, then you can trademark the word. And sometimes that’s better. Because when you’re just starting out, maybe you change your mind, and you want to change the logo. And if you trademark the logo itself, you’re only protecting it in that version. So if you change your logo down the road, you have to, obviously, trademark that. So that’s something to consider, as well. 

08:07

And you talked a little bit about the classification. So basically, there are a number of different international classifications, which are basically a kind of a standardized set of classes that things fall into. And they’re kind of like half products and half services. And this is one of the most important pieces of trademark law because where you trademark it and the description that you give it can change fundamentally change what is and is not protected. So a great example, like you said is you have a brick and mortar retail, you know, space, but maybe you have a product line, those are two completely different trademark classes. Maybe you have an e-commerce store, that’s another one. And so you have to think kind of strategically about, you know, what am I doing? Where is the protection? I mean, in a perfect world, you protect yourself across all of those categories, but small business owners often have you know, limited resources and you kind of have to think through where, where are my biggest exposure points and go in that order of priority.

09:14

Now when you’re trademarking is this, you said there’s international trademarks. For a brick and mortar spa, you know, there’s a lot of like, common names that are used, you know, if it’s just like the relaxation spa, right? Like, I don’t know if anyone has that name. But if I had the relaxation spa in Washington, DC, and I had the relaxations and there was another one in Texas. Would the trademark print, is it per state? Or is it like in the entire United States? No one can use this name for a brick and mortar spa.

09:51

This is a fantastic question. So technically speaking to register a trademark with the United States Patent and Trademark Office to register as used, there’s, we’ll get to this a little bit. But as used in commerce as in today, it’s offered in commerce, it’s actually in interstate commerce. 

10:09

So to register a trademark federally, it has to be across state lines. So an easy way to think of that is obviously on an e-commerce site, people can, you know, access your site from wherever they can shoot, you know, you can ship your products to wherever that is interstate commerce, and can be subject to a federally registered trademark. However, if you have a brick and mortar in Washington, DC, and that’s all you have, and you’re selling products there, but maybe not on e-commerce site, you’re actually you can’t qualify for a registered trademark with the USPTO. But every state has their own state registration. And that would be a great option for things like, you know, a brick and mortar that you’re only if you have multiple, you know, multiple places, but they’re only in state, that’s a great option for people. If they’re not, I mean, today, so many people have something online that they probably meet the interstate commerce rules. But that’s something to think about. For example, if you have a brick and mortar space, and you want to protect that name, then you might only be able to register it at the state level. Whereas you could register the e-commerce site, for example, you know, on the on the USPTO, which gives you the federal registration.

11:28

Now what happens, if you start your business, and you’re rockin and rollin, you’re going into year one, you’re generating six figures, you’re super excited. And then all of a sudden, you find out you didn’t trademark your business and you’re infringing on someone else’s name?

11:47

Yes, this is a very common problem. I mean, people get excited about their business, they’re focused on the important things like getting set up finding a place to lease, you know, getting clients. And it kind of falls on the backburner. So in a perfect world, you do some of this research upfront, but it very often doesn’t happen. And the worst case scenario, obviously, is getting a cease and desist. 

12:14

So there’s kind of two versions that happens that I see one, of course, is you get the scary letter from somebody’s attorney that says you’re infringing on our trademark. And the other is kind of right before that, where somebody says, like, I just found out that there’s somebody else in this space, and they have the same name, what do I do, and in both cases, there’s obviously the risk of infringement. So a cease and desist letter can kind of run the gamut, depending on, you know, how big the trademark owner is, how, you know, proficient, their attorney is in intellectual property law, and how big you are, because obviously, the more the larger you are, in terms of visibility and revenue, the more likely they’re going to come harder on an infringement case. So the cease and desist letter can run from, Hey, stop using this immediately to, not only do we want you to stop using this, we want an accounting of the last, you know, two years that you’ve been using this mark, and we’re going to seek damages for basically whatever they, you know, whatever they can get from you. So, people are a little bit more aware of this in the copyright space. Because, you know, if you take like a picture from Google that’s copyrighted, and you put it on your website, and somebody says, like, take it down, and you owe us $5,000, taking it down does not prevent the infringement. You know, so when you think about it, you have to kind of ask yourself, what is the risk of, of doing this and the risk is that the more likely the consumer was confused, and the more likely it was on purpose, right, like on the spectrum, the more likely you’re going to end up having to pay a lot of money to resolve it. Most of the time, these infringement cases are not like that. It’s not like Oh, I like that spawning. I’m gonna take it and then I’m gonna run, you know, run with it. It’s, it’s tends to be more on accident. So typically, a cease and desist says, stop immediately. 

12:28

And sometime,

14:19

which still can be costly, right? If you have to redo your I mean, just thinking about signage, right? If you change the name of your spa, if you have to change, like all your emails, your brand and website like that, that still is a pretty hefty chunk of change.

14:38

100% and I mean, I always tell people don’t automatically assume if you get a cease and desist that you have violated a trademark because there are people who are more likely to go after things that are either similar or the same. A lot of people may not have a registered trademark, there’s a number of reasons Why but maybe they don’t have a registered trademark, but they they’re telling you that you’re they’re violating common law trademark, which is possible you we all own rights in our brands from its first in time concept, but your rights are extremely limited without a registered trademark. So I always say if you do get it, like take a deep breath and reach out to an attorney, see what they say, sometimes it’s just kind of like a bully who’s pushing a little bit beyond the reach of their registered trademark or their their rights under trademark law. And that there’s, you know, you don’t have to go through that whole rebranding without, you know, without consulting with an attorney. 

15:41

But that is definitely, there’s kind of the two worst case scenarios, obviously, the worst worst is that you have to change everything and potentially pay to get out of it. But that tends to really be more when things are done, kind of intentionally, and you but like you said, you know, rebranding, especially I mean, every if you’ve ever had to pay for a sign on a building, they’re several $1,000. So that alone plus, again, redoing the website and the loss of your brand, you know that that…

16:08

 The goodwill that you’ve built with that name recognition.

16:16

Absolutely. So something that I tell people, because sometimes people freak out, like, Oh, my gosh, I didn’t do this, what if I am, what do I do, even if you did it at the beginning, or if you didn’t, I always say like, put it on your calendar, once a quarter, do a Google search, like see what’s out there with your name or similar names, see what’s out there, you know, on on social media, and number one that’s important for yourself to protect your own brand, obviously, but also, it helps you kind of see what’s out there and what other people are using in the industry to make sure that there isn’t a problem, because it’s so you know, if you got here to today, and there is and sometimes this happens, by the way that somebody says, Oh, my gosh, I did what you said, I went and searched. And it turns out, there’s like, you know, a competitor of mine out of, you know, some other state that has 150,000 followers on Instagram, and I’m just little me, but then we go and we run a trademark search. And it’s like, Well, to be honest, you’ve been using this mark longer, they don’t have a registered trademark, let’s file their trademark, and then we get to send them a cease and desist, you know, and so there are a lot of ways to kind of look at it and strategize, even if you didn’t do it at the beginning.

17:34

Okay, so let’s just clarify a little bit the difference between, you know, for your state trademark, the federal trademark, if you’re a brick and mortar spa, versus having the product line versus having the e-commerce store, because there’s so many different variations, if you are the relaxation spa, and you just have a section on your website, that is where to purchase products, that could essentially be a an extension of your current business. 

18:06

But what I’m seeing a lot of spa owners do with the especially with, you know, 2020, and all of the, you know, COVID, and all the things, they’re starting their own skincare lines, which are essentially completely different businesses. 

18:23

Exactly. 

18:23

So they’re having, they would have to run a full separate trademark, likely in a different classification.

18:32

Right. So I mean, definitely in a different classification. So let’s say you already have a trademark for your, you know, brick and mortar store, even if that’s on the state level. So we kind of touched on that at the beginning, right is that anything that’s an interstate commerce can and should be registered on the federal level, and you don’t need to do a state level and a federal level trademark, there might be some strategic reasons. But rarely, if you can register at the federal level, that’s usually what you’re doing. If you want to do you know, a skincare line at the federal level, but you have this one brick and mortar in your state, that’s probably going to be a state specific trademark, because again, the the actual spa services that are being provided only within state lines are not going to be subject to interstate commerce, trademarks under the federal protection. 

19:25

So you can have a trademark with the same name relaxation spa, let’s say you get that, you know, within the state of Maryland, or whatever, and then you have the skincare line. Now you’re going to register that with the USPTO. And it’s going to be a completely different class. So when you register a trademark, there’s two ways you can register it is already used in commerce, which is kind of what we’re talking about, right? It’s being sold in interstate commerce. 

19:53

The second piece is with an intent to use and the thing about an intent to use is that trademark laws can’t just people can’t just squat trademarks, right? So you can file an intent to use application. So if you think you have this great idea, and it’s a competitive market, and you don’t want somebody else to steal it, but you haven’t launched yet, you can file it and get the process going, while you’re kind of doing this, and then once you get the approval, then you have to, you basically have six months with some extensions to actually prove to the USPTO, that you use it in commerce, otherwise, it goes away and it’s abandoned, then you don’t have the right to the trademark. So if you file, you know, if you’re setting up a vertical in your business, and you already in let’s say, your, I guess this is all to say, let’s say you are like, well, I don’t have a trademark right now, I, you know, I want to do it for the my e-commerce site, but I’m also working on the skincare line. So maybe I want to do too, you can file one trademark where some of the classifications are used in commerce, and some are intent to use. And it basically kind of goes through this process where they’ll approve the part, you know, that’s, you kind of go through to the to get to the registration on the use and commerce, and then you have to kind of catch up with the, you know, with the intent to use stuff, but at least everything’s kind of there. Like I said, it’s a first in time concept. So obviously, if if you kind of wait on the registration, because you haven’t launched it yet, but somebody beats you to the punch in terms of filing registration with the USPTO, it puts you in this position to like prove otherwise, which is effectively litigation, so it becomes costly, and then most people don’t do it.

21:34

So logistically, how long does filing a trademark? Typically? I know, that’s like a big question but

21:43

a really long time,

21:45

a really long time. How long does it take? How much does it cost? Like, what’s the range of these types of things? 

21:50

Sure. So a trademark that doesn’t have any issues whatsoever goes like this, you file the applicant. Well, your attorney or the platform you use or whatever you do does the research to to confirm that it’s, you know, likely to be trade markable. Basically, that means number one, that there’s no conflict, or no major conflict or a conflict, that’s not kind of strong enough that you still want to pursue. 

22:13

Number two, that it’s actually registerable. One of the things about it, and we kind of joke is we were talking about relaxation spa, which is there’s like a spectrum of registrability with the trademark office and basically the more arbitrary or fanciful, which are the technical words, but the more arbitrary would be like Apple, right? You think of. 

22:33

Before Apple computers, nobody associated the word Apple with technology. So it’s arbitrary, but it’s a real word. It’s just arbitrarily associated with that brand that that industry, obviously fanciful is something totally made up. And then it goes down the spectrum from you know, to things that are a little bit more descriptive. If it’s descriptive, there supposed to be some kind of mental leap that people have to make. And then generic would be like, I can’t just, I can’t trademark Business Law Firm that’s just generic, if there’s nothing to it, descriptive could be more like relaxation spa, right? Like, it’s pretty descriptive. It’s almost generic, it’s questionable about whether that could be registerable. So that whole process has to be done up front. 

23:19

 Then the second piece, obviously, as you file the application, and then it just sits there. And typically, an application has no issues is six months. And even now, just I think with COVID, and, you know, the examining attorneys are working from home and everything’s I’ve never seen in 12 years, it take this long, but sometimes it takes six months even to be like assigned to an examining attorney. 

23:44

So six months to a year, longer if you have, you know, if somebody files an opposition, if they if the USPTO has an issue that you have to respond to. So the kind of the process is you file the application, it gets assigned to an examining attorney, they’ll run their own search, if they don’t have any conflicts with it, they will schedule it for publication in the Official Gazette, which is basically it’s published in a searchable medium for 30 days so that if somebody out there wants to oppose it, they would file an opposition say like we oppose the this registration, because the USPTO isn’t like going out on Google and looking at what’s out there. They’re only looking what’s registered with the USPTO. But obviously, other people might have rights that they want to oppose, but it’s their job to go out and pursue that. Then if no opposition gets filed, you wait and wait and wait. But eventually you get that notice of registration and that’s when you get the you know, our with the circle symbol and you have your registered trademark. 

24:46

In between that what happens a lot is that the USPTO submits an Office Action, which is basically it could be anything from this is it registerable because there’s a conflict too. We don’t like the specimen you provide Or we want you to disclaim this word. So there’s a lot of little or big issues that can come up in the process. Obviously, if they think that it’s too similar to an existing trademark, then, you know, you’re typically an attorney, because it requires, you know, case law and research that they respond and say, you know, here’s all the reasons the factual and and kind of case precedent reasons why we don’t think we don’t agree, and you kind of try to overcome that. And that’s kind of the process. But you do get to hold your spot in line, so to say, Correct, correct. And that’s why we go back to that first in time concept, which is, even if you file you know, it’s sometimes it takes people three years to get mark or five years because of whatever process they go through. But at the end of the day, they started it, you know, if they started it in 2015, and they don’t get it till 2021, it’s still theirs. And anybody in the process that had tried to, you know, come up with something similar, will still have, you know, that person will have superior rights to those later uses. 

26:04

Okay, so, what advice just in kind of wrapping this up, what advice would you give to someone? If they’re looking for an attorney like you like you do trademarking? We’ll share your information below. But what are they looking for in an attorney? What  questions are they asking what’s important when trying to choose an attorney or a company to do trademarking with?

26:28

That’s a great question. I personally believe and this is not just trademarking, this is any legal work is that you should really feel comfortable with your attorney, I think, you know, people have have, they’re kind of it’s like the caricature of an attorney. They’re kind of like mean and grumpy and talk condescendingly to people. And I always say, you know, I have like, the legal knowledge, but you are the business owner, you have, you’re the expert in your business. So I’m not going to tell you what to do, I need you to tell me what you do. And I’m just going to fill in the legal part, you know, and I think that that’s really important to have somebody who’s willing to listen to you to understand your business. And when it comes to trademarking, that’s especially important, because like we said, the classifications really matter. And you want to make sure that you’re covering yourself in the most kind of robust way so that you are protected in all of the verticals that you offer, and that you have, you know, the protections that you’re seeking, when you apply. 

27:27

The second piece to that, obviously, is somebody who’s familiar with trademark. And, you know, it’s a complex area of law. And a lot of business attorneys do do trademark and other intellectual property work, but some don’t. So it’s important to understand, you know, do they file trademarks? Do they file them in your industry? Have they worked with people in your industry before, so that they really understand kind of what they’re getting, and making sure that they have somebody that understands the industry and the business. And then I think the other piece to that which is kind of ancillary, but really important is there are a lot of platforms out there, like the legal zooms, and there’s some kind of cheap, trademarking platforms that really are quite a bit more cost effective. And I get the question a lot like, what’s, what do you get with a lawyer versus this? And the short answer is you don’t get a lawyer when you work with those, they’re algorithmically based. And if you have simple and straightforward trademarks, they’re often a really good option, there’s two problems to that, right. 

28:29

One is, you don’t know if you’re going to get the right protection, and you don’t have the benefit of going back and forth and talking to somebody, you know, to make sure that everything’s properly described, because the classifications there are kind of like pre approved ones, but you can also write your own if your, if yours doesn’t really fit exactly into those. And so there’s a lot of different pieces. And then the second piece is, what about, if you get an Office Action? Is that extra money? Or do you have to go now find a lawyer to do that, and all of that piece? So I think understanding kind of what you get in terms of cost, and how they’re going to guide you through the whole process and not just filing the application, but you know, do they respond to the office actions? Is that additional cost? Or is it included in whatever fee you pay? You know, are they going to take you through the whole process? And and that’s an important thing to consider?

29:22

I don’t think we answered that question of what is the range of price?

29:27

Oh, so fees themselves, the actual USPTO filing fee is $250 per class and it can go up if you I said we could make these custom ones and the custom costs a little bit more because and they’re also much harder to get approved. So you want if you can you want to fit into like the pre approved bubbles. But if you don’t, then you definitely want to work with a trademark attorney who’s familiar with it so that they can write you kind of a custom description that’s going to get approved. So it’s $250 to like $300 and you know, $50 per class. So again, if you have the brick and mortar, and then you have the, and I guess it’s different with state, but you know, if you have a retail stores plus a skincare line plus an e commerce store plus a clothing line, right, whatever that that might be for different classes. So if you’re filing for different classes, it’s time to 250. So that’s just the filing fee itself. 

30:23

In terms of the attorneys, it can range, I mean, the platform’s can range from a couple 100 bucks. I mean, you know, big intellectual property firm is going to charge tens of thousands of dollars, a smaller firm is going to be more like in the, you know, maybe as low as 1000 as high as $5,000 range. But it really runs the gamut, I could probably find you a $500 attorney and a $50,000 attorney for the same work, you know.

30:52

 Yeah, I know, it’s so it’s hard with legal, but it’s one of those things like, I’m such a rule follower, I’m like, you know, I just want to make sure that it’s done right, and my taxes are paid. So for me, it’s like having that protection is just so so important because I don’t even want to think about someone sending me a letter, like there’s enough that we’re doing to grow our business and serve our clients. But that’s the last thing you want to be thinking about.

31:22

Yes. And, you know, I mean, people have different levels of risk tolerance. And so I think some people operate I mean, obviously, I’m a lawyer, so I’m risk averse by nature. So I’m also a rule follower. And, but but I work with a lot of people who have different levels of risk tolerance, and some people say, you know, I will, I’ll kind of see what’s out there myself in a in an informal way, and hope for the best. And some people say no way, this is one of the first things I want to invest in for my business.

31:53

I always tell people, you know, the more proprietary your your brand is, obviously, when you think about like a skincare line, and e-commerce that really is easy for people to kind of get in your space, you know, versus like a brick and mortar is going to be a little bit harder for somebody to like, show up across the street with the same or similar name, you know, that you’re it’s a little bit easier to be aware of that in the in the community, but online, it’s a big, wide open space. And it’s a little bit of the Wild West still. And so you know, that protection as you grow a brand and like you said, right, the cost of you know, changing a sign on the, we think it’s expensive to change a sign on a brick and mortar building. But to change, like your packaging on 100,000 units of, you know, of inventory is significantly more expensive. So it…

32:45

Oh, 100%. So a little bit is that kind of that risk tolerance that you have, obviously, you know, it’s one thing to have 5000 units of inventory and trying something out and kind of seeing what sticks, maybe that won’t be as costly, as you know. And then a website might be not as costly. Maybe you don’t have your own skincare line and you only sell third party sites and a website. rebranding isn’t necessarily as costly from a from a financial standpoint, it can like we spoke about in the kind of the goodwill space be pretty costly to the brand and the business.

33:20

Very good. Share where our listeners can find you follow you get in touch with you.

33:26

Yes, you can follow my website isnotyourfatherslawyer.com and you can find me on Instagram, mostly @notyourfatherslawyer and, you know, happy to talk to people but there’s a lot of free resources out there, myself and from others that you know, to make sure that people are getting the information that they need in terms of you know, starting and running their businesses.

33:51

Super, super helpful. Keren, thank you so much. We’ll include the links below this episode so you can stay in touch with Keren you can learn about trademarking, decide if that’s something that you want to do in your business. 

34:03

And if you have questions, be sure to head on over to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Facebook group and we’ll catch you on the next episode. 

34:12

As always, if you want to keep the conversation going, I want you to head on over to the Spa Marketing Made Easy Facebook group. The number one free resource out there for aestheticians focused on business building. We’ve got weekly marketing tips, a monthly goal setting and planning session, monthly aesthetician business book club, plus a community of thousands of aestheticians committed to business building in the spa industry. I’ll see you there.

While I’m a total marketing nerd and love to talk about any and all things business strategy, one of my favorite topics to delve into is skincare itself. Of course, I always want to tie it back to business and professional development, which is why I think you’ll love the conversation I’m having with Teresa Baldwin, an Account Development Manager with Jan Marini Skin Research. 

Teresa is a California Licensed Esthetician with over 16 years in the cosmetic aesthetics industry with most of my career being in medical skin care sales with a customer focus on dermatologists, plastic surgeons, and medical spas. 

She’s also worked for some of the top brands in the biz, including SkinCeuticals, SENTE Labs, Cartessa Aesthetics (Capital Equipment) and now Jan Marini Skin Research, and her passion for skin aesthetics and helping business owners through education on product knowledge to hands-on professional treatment simply radiates through the screen. 

In this episode, we discuss:

• What sets the Jan Marini Skin Research brand apart from formulation to results 
• The value of having support and resources from the brands you carry within your spa
• How Jan Marini Skin Research crafts top-tier resources and ongoing education for their brand partners and what you can expect from them
• What aesthetic practitioners and businesses make for an ideal match with Jan Marini Skin Research

References Mentioned in Episode #208: A Deep-Dive into Jan Marini Skin Research with Teresa Baldwin, L.E.

• Learn more about Jan Marini Skin Research on their website and learn more about their professional training and resources here
• Connect with Teresa via email at teresa.baldwin{at}janmarini.com or on Instagram @medcosmeticspro

• To keep the conversation going, ask questions, and connect with other like-minded aestheticians building thriving careers, click here to join the free Spa Marketing Made Easy Podcast community. 

As a thank you for being a loyal listener to the Spa Marketing Made Easy podcast and for helping us to reach more aestheticians working on growing their businesses and creating a life they love, we have created a free resource portal just for you! 

It’s totally free to join, and for every 25 reviews we get on iTunes, we’ll add a new training video, PDF, tracker, or other high-value resource to help you grow your aesthetic business!

If you have yet to leave a review, click here to leave one on iTunes, and click here to access the free resources already unlocked!